QUIZ TIME!
- Did you know that
Mad at the World released their seventh album
this year?
- How many articles
on Mad at the World have you
read?
- How many ads for
Mad at the World albums have you
seen?
no?
none?
none?
That wouldn't be much of a
surprise if they were your answers.
Mad at the World hasn't
been the focus of intensive marketing or promotion,
which, combined with the lack of national touring,
has led to a lack of awareness of this
group.
While my conversation with Roger Rose won't paint a
full picture of the band, it is hard to come up
with resources about previous works of the
group--even their record company couldn't come up
with more than a one-page biography. But, I hope
you enjoy a quick look into a band I have long
admired for creating quality albums on a very low
budget, and saying things that most Christian bands
were talking about.
How long has Ben
Jacobs been in the band?
He's two albums
new to the band. Did you know that we just
released an album called The Dreamland
Café?
Yes, I've been
listening to it.
Well, that's
album number seven. He also played on The
Ferris Wheel, which is album number six.
Brent and Mike used to be in the band. Mike was
with the band all the way up until our fifth
record and then Brent didn't join the band until
our third album. Our first two albums were
like...
That was you and
Randy.
Actually it was
me, Randy, and Mike.
I have those two
albums. I like them.
 Yeah,
I like them too. They're great records. I just
switched styles just because we didn't perform
our music well live. That was the main reason.
Sometimes I look back and feel like it might
have been a good thing to at least try to pursue
that more, live-wise. Who knows? It's easy to
look back on your musical career and wonder what
would have happened if you had taken some
different directions. But we kinda did the first
two albums with very keyboard/techno type stuff.
And then we did so bad performing it live that
we switched over--sort of rejected all of that
and just went to like a straight, four-piece,
rock band type thing. And then we kinda tried to
really get into that and some of the members of
the band, I think more Randy and Brent, wanted
to do more hard rock type sounding music. We did
that for a few albums; that took us to about
like our fifth album and then the last two
albums have been more mellow and more melodic,
maybe a little more retro or more sixties-ish
sounding.
The Dreamland
Café sounds kind of
Beatlesque.
Yeah, it
definitely did. It's funny because I don't claim
to be the best anything--I'm very aware of my
limitations, and right now what I'm referring to
is in response to what you just said: I'm
thinking about my arrangement and my producer
abilities. I've done that actually on all of my
different schizophrenic stages of my musical
career, whether it be maybe sounding too much
like Depeche Mode or Oingo Boingo
in our first two albums and the Pet Shop
Boys or whoever. And then we kinda sounded
like a band called the Mission U.K. or
even The Cult for a while and then now it
may be a little too much like The Beatles
or Jellyfish or something. I guess I'm
apologizing for that but I'm also admitting to
it, which hopefully makes it a little better. I
do a lot of the stuff myself and it's hard to
see stuff when it's that close to you; you know
it sounds stupid but when something's right next
to you, you don't see it as well. In fact, I
guess I'm saying all that to say that for my
next project, I'm looking forward to having
somebody else produce it.
[Laughter].
I was wondering if the
next album would be a country album--just kidding.
[Laughter]
 [Laughter]
That's funny 'cause I've actually cracked that
same joke to different people when they say,
"Well, what's next for you?" No, I don't know
what we will do in the future, musically or
style-wise. I try to always do different styles
just to keep things from getting boring, I
guess, for myself. A lot of people are very
style conscious, maybe more so than I am. To me,
I kind of just try to look at the song and see
if it's a good song or not and not get too hung
up on the drum sounds, the guitar sounds, how
much distortion's on the guitar, or whatever. I
mean, obviously correct production and little
specifics do help or hurt something...
So Mike Link is not
the same Mike that was in the band
before?
 No,
that's right. He's a different Mike. Ben and
Mike, where they came from was Mike Pendleton
and Brent--they didn't really quit the
band--they kinda quit the band and got fired all
at the same time. [Laughter] It was
after our fifth record and we didn't know what
to do for sure. At that time Randy, my little
brother, had been kinda working on a solo
career, so to speak, with a band that he called
Rose. He had had, like, his second album
out at the time. And Ben and Mike Link are
actually from his band and I was trying to
decide what to do with myself--do I want to just
try to pursue some kind of a solo career, just
not do anything at all, or try to find new
members for Mad at the World... And he
[Randy] said, "Just use Mike and Ben,
they love Mad at the World and they'd love to
play in Mad at the World--they know the stuff."
So we tried that and they did fine and I like
them really well as people and they were just
totally enthusiastic about being in the band, so
that just sorta happened by circumstance. They
worked out really well. I'm real happy with
them.
Their names aren't on
all the songs and only your name is on
some...
There's about
three songs on the new album that I pretty much
do everything on and that is kind of the result
of a small potatoes--low budget deal.
[Laughter] It's a matter of scheduling
and a deadline and not being able for everybody
to necessarily take off work and stuff. And on
some of the songs I just--this is actually the
first album that I've ever played the drums
on--usually my little brother does--I played
drums on every song on this album except one and
I'm not the drummer of the band. I'm the guitar
player and the singer, basically. But Randy was
busy working on some other demo projects for
some other bands and working on some of his own
stuff and then he kind of just didn't
want to play drums on this album. It
wasn't any bad feelings between me and him, he
was just really busy and he said, "Hey, you know
this stuff a lot better than I do. If you don't
mind I'd love for you just to play drums on it."
At first, I thought, "No way, you play better
than I do." But then I thought if you don't know
the material and you're not gonna spend the time
to learn it then maybe I would be happier with a
drummer maybe not as good but that at least
knows the material than with someone who's
better and just kind of faking their way through
it.
So in a way it's
almost like your solo album.
A little bit. But
if I was really doing my solo album I would've
experimented more, musically. Since it was a Mad
at the World album I tried to keep in mind maybe
a band being able to perform these songs. But if
I do a solo record, I'll want to do a lot of
different things with it. We all have full-time
jobs that have nothing to do with music which
takes up 40+ hours a week and then we all have
our wives and lives on top of that and then just
trying to squeeze in a little bit of time for
rest and then whatever little bit that's left
over, we give that to Mad at the World and it's
just not enough time. So we just kind of fake
our way through it a little bit, more so than it
should be, that's for sure. But ideally I would
love to have a producer and have it done in a
real recording studio. I do all the Mad at the
World stuff from my home studio which definitely
has its limitations. But it has its benefits too
because I can work on it for a while and if
things aren't going well I don't have to stress
out because I'm in the studio at $50 an hour or
whatever and am wasting those tracks. So that
definitely gives me a good working environment.
But ideally I'd rather have it in a better
studio with a producer and different players,
maybe--orchestration and different things. That
may happen. By the way, this Dreamland
Café was my final album with
Frontline so now I'm an unsigned artist and I'm
currently pursuing some other options for my
future. I've been talking to some different
people but I'm not sure what I'm gonna do
exactly.
Start your own label!
[Laughter]
Nah, I don't want
to do that...Too many headaches with the
business end of it. I mean, if I didn't have
another job--I'd already kinda considered doing
that but then I have such little time for the
band right now. If I started my own label, that
time would just literally evaporate into
nothing. And I don't like the business end of
it, I like the creative end of it. I deal with
the business end of it when I have to,
but I don't like it.
What's your day
job?
I'm a mailman for
the U.S. Postal Service. It's nothing overly
glamorous but it's a really good job for me
because it gives me time. I write most of my
lyrics when I'm walking down the street
delivering mail. It's great [that] I can
do that. Literally when I'm in the process of
songwriting, I'll have the song in my head and
I'll literally work it out, maybe have verse one
at my house and then some of the chorus and then
I'll just sing these songs in my head over and
over again as I'm going up and down the street.
Then when I get to my Jeep, I'll get out my
little scrap piece of paper and write down these
lyrics. So it's cool I don't have to just waste
time sitting in the studio. I can actually get
some fresh air and exercise while I'm doing it.
And you get like four and a half weeks paid
vacation a year so I can kinda get a chance to
do a few flyout dates and stuff, but we really
can't tour. I just got a call a couple days ago
and somebody wants us to come out to Germany and
surrounding European countries for like two
weeks this summer so we're looking into being
able to do that. Unfortunately right after I got
off the phone with the guy I found out that the
day he wants us to come play is like the same
day that Randy's first-born baby is due. So he's
not gonna go, so I'm gonna have to get a
replacement drummer to do it and there's no
other time that they can really reschedule it
because it's going around a festival. So I was
really disappointed about that but if we don't
go, there might not be a next time and
maybe it'll open the door to go back.
What's your wife's
name?
Julia.
How long have you guys
been married?
Three
years.
No children
yet?
No.
How about the other
guys?
Randy, my
brother, is married to Leesa and the other two
guys are single.
Ages?
Randy is 23, I
believe. Mike is 29, I think, and Ben is 32, and
I'm 35.
How many brothers and
sisters do you have?
I have one other
older brother, Ray. He plays on some Mad at the
World.
Who's Danny
Rose?
That's my cousin.
He helps Randy out with his stuff a lot. He'll
come down and hang with Randy and record and
write and stuff.
So you're primary pen
for the group?
Yeah.
What is the concept
behind The Dreamland
Café?
I just left the
interpretation to be fairly loose, but I guess
it could be interpreted as a metaphor for the
Church, or it could be a metaphor for
Christianity or Christ. There's a song called
"The Dreamland Café" and it just kinda
talks about and refers to this fictitious little
place, The Dreamland Café, and it's a
place where people are optimistic but they don't
mind people who have problems and aren't sad
because there's enough love to go around in this
place. It's as simple as that, it's a little
metaphor for Christianity, the optimistic,
hopeful side of Christianity.
And that's a good
thing?
Sure!
Do you think, though,
that sometimes Christian music has over-glorified
the optimistic side of Christianity and has
disillusioned some people in the
process?
 Oh
yeah, I agree. I mean I am like the last person
in the world to try to create a plastic
fantastic, sugar-coated, "everything's perfect"
version of Christianity. In fact, if a person
was to look at the majority of the whole Mad at
the World musical career in all seven albums,
it's probably more optimism through sort of the
darker-side-of-life issues. So this album--if
it's a little more optimistic and hopeful--this
is creating a balance for some of the other
lyrics. I felt in this album it was time to try
to be a little more hopeful. But even in that
song, "The Dreamland Café," the second
verse talks about,
There's people
who smile and there's people who can't
We don't mind it
But if they stay around there is love to be
found
And they'll find it
Sadness is a gift if sadness brings you back
again
Jesus loves the brokenhearted castaways
Who've gone astray.
 So
it's just saying Christianity is a place of
refuge for people who are broken and down. It's
definitely not just a phony, perfect version of
Christianity as in, "It will answer all your
problems, make everything wonderful and
perfect." I would hope it's realistic but just a
little more hopeful than sometimes I've been in
the past.
Do you feel like you
guys got a lot of flack for some of the stuff you
did in the past, being a little dark or
pessimistic?
 No,
I don't think so. Like I mentioned, it's being
hopeful through some of those darker issues. I
think in most of my songs when I talk about
things I'm always careful to point out the hope,
or the answer, or the possibilities through some
of these issues. I know that for a fact based on
the mail I get, people understand and they're
appreciative of my lyrics. I have one song on
the album The Ferris Wheel called "Inside
of Heaven's Gates," and to me it's like the
perfect song to be played at somebody's funeral.
In that song it's saying this person's eyes are
closed but it doesn't mean he cannot see--he's
just seeing something new. It talks about that
you'll be able to meet this person in heaven
again. That's just an example of what I'm
talking about--where it's a dark, heavy topic
but yet there's definitely an explanation or an
answer within the topic. I've had plenty of
people write me and say that my lyrics minister
to them in a way that no other band has--but
it's definitely God speaking to them through my
lyrics. And that's wonderful to me because
that's what I would hope would happen and it
does. I'm just amazed that I can actually have
an impact on somebody's life because I don't
even feel like I'm much of a poet or a
songwriter but I've been lucky and God gives me
some inspiration. That makes it worthwhile
because I don't really make any money at it.
[Laughter] I mean I make just a little
bit of money but I probably spend more than I
make, you know? So just knowing that I'm making
a difference..
What kind of reaction
did you get from people about the song "Isn't Sex A
Wonderful Thing?" [which was recorded on the
album Boomerang in 1991]
That song, it's
like I said earlier, it's kind of easier to see
stuff when it's farther away from you. Looking
back at that song right now, I wish I could have
that song over again to just write the lyrics
slightly different. I think that the lyrics were
slightly a little bit too vague and left a
little bit of room for confusion or
misinterpretation. My folks live about two hours
from here. They're in a small desert community,
and this mom and pop's Christian bookstore
there--they don't carry Mad at the World because
of that song. My mom tried to tell this lady
that this song is trying to warn kids that this
wonderful thing, potentially wonderful
thing, can also be potentially bad. And she just
saw the title and thought it was sort of like
this Christian band promoting sex saying it's a
wonderful thing and didn't get it. If that's how
she felt then I blew it 'cause I should have
made it more clear. But I originally wrote the
song out of frustration. Some girl that I knew,
I found out that she had been sexually molested
when she was younger, and I was very angry about
the fact that humanity takes this potentially
wonderful thing of sex as God would want it to
be and then messes with it and breaks God's
rules or laws, and then it can be so hurtful to
people. So maybe with an attitude of whatever
cynicism or sarcasm, that's how the lyrics came
out in the song. The way I used to describe that
song is that I would say that, "The name of that
song is not a name, it's a question." I think on
the album it even says: "Isn't Sex A Wonderful
Thing?" with a question mark so that right there
was a hint that it was begging the question to
the listener. Is this a wonderful thing or isn't
it? And then depending on whether you obey God's
rules, it will be or won't be.
What is your
perspective on the name of the band
now?
 I'm
as mad at the world as I've ever been, I guess.
[Laughter] The name of the band Mad at
the World is still very much appropriate now.
The way I describe the name of the band is just
the fact that as a Christian my heart, and even
my mind, should be focused on eternal heavenly
things--things that will last, and always be
there. And if I'm not thinking of those things
that's probably because there's some kind of a
worldly distraction that's causing me to look
elsewhere. Like the verse I use to sort of
describe the band, I think it's 1 John 2:16; it
says to "love not the world, neither the things
of the world" and then it lists different
things--the pride of life, the lust of the eyes
and the flesh. And there's another scripture, I
think, a few verses later where it says, "If
anyone's a friend of the world, he's an enemy of
God." So basically, as a Christian, worldly
things and worldly values can be your actual
biggest enemy or biggest distraction from the
things you probably should be thinking about or
putting a priority on. So, in that sense, I
would hope that I'm still mad at the
world.
What are some of your
biggest struggles?
As a musician,
probably I would say trusting God and staying
hopeful and optimistic during the times when you
feel like maybe you're walking through a valley.
And maybe you hear the voice of doubt saying
that God doesn't love you because you're not as
worthy of His love as maybe you should be and
then not listening to that voice. I think
it's an ongoing struggle that every human being
has to deal with and that's kind of the essence
of the Christian faith because there's so many
different good reasons to believe that God
doesn't love you if you want to listen to those
reasons. There's so many questions and then the
world, our society, just seems like in the last
five years, Christianity in the media or
Hollywood has turned into such a laughing matter
or falls under the same category as the David
Koresh people. It causes you as a Christian to
sometimes feel like you're just walking through
this desert by yourself and the only thing you
can hang onto is your faith that God is real. I
certainly believe He is, I mean I know He is.
But it's tough sometimes in this society--you
feel like the whole world is sort of writing off
Christianity as this thing that was fine and
dandy for the '50s when people were more simple,
but now God doesn't fit into this more
"enlightened" society, or whatever. And I
certainly don't believe that, but I think that
would be my own personal struggle--just to hang
on to my faith as the Bible talks about, like a
child. A child doesn't have to know and
understand, it just believes because it
believes, you know? And that's how I became a
Christian and that's how I want to stay.
As far as musically, I
would say... I don't know musically what to
say.
Who are some of the
people that you turn to for advice, support,
accountability?
Me and my wife go
to a small church here, about five minutes from
my house, in Seal Beach. We have a very kind,
loving, young pastor. We're really thankful for
this church that we go to. Our pastor loves
music and he really believes in what we do. It's
just great, we had a concert weeks ago and he
put our flyer in the morning bulletin and
announced to the church that they should all
come see us, and about half of them did
come. [Laughter] It was really great to
feel that he believed in what we do and is
supportive. He's kinda hip, in a way, he reminds
me a little bit, if you can believe, of Ace
Ventura a little bit. [Laughs] If you
can imagine Ace Ventura mixed in with James
Dobson a little bit... But this is like the one
church that I've never found myself daydreaming
or being bored or tired during church--which,
unfortunately, sometimes at some other
churches--I have felt that way.
Accountability? To my
wife. That definitely is something that God uses
to keep me on track when maybe I might not want
to be. I'm reminded of that I'm not just here
for myself, I'm also here for her now too. And,
of course, my family. I've been born and raised
in a family of all Christians so we help support
each other and pray for each other. We can
always talk to each other. And the band, as
well. We're kind of like a family, when one
person is down we will check up on him, pitch in
and help in some way.
As a band that can't
really tour, you probably don't have too much
interaction with the fans--or do you get a lot of
letters? How does that affect you?
 We
get letters and we do some dates. We've played
Cornerstone. The band's been around for seven
years, and we've played Cornerstone three of
those seven years. Jokingly, sometimes I refer
to our band as the "best kept secret in
Christian music." I don't think we're the best
band in Christian music by any means, but it's
weird that after eight or nine years there's so
many people that have never even heard of us.
That can be a little bit disappointing at times.
Hopefully something can be done about that
now--maybe I can get on a label that may be able
to help us more.
Frontline isn't well
known for their publicity and
marketing.
 It's
been a little bit frustrating, but on the other
hand, I don't think any of us are prepared to
quit our jobs and go live out on the road. So I
will share a bit of responsibility for that.
I've described (and this is not cynical, I think
it's just more realistic) the Christian and the
non-Christian music industry kind of like if you
can imagine an aquarium the size of a big
baseball stadium--that being the secular music
industry. Then off to the side, a couple feet
from this gigantic aquarium, a six-inch little
fish bowl, that doesn't intersect--that's the
Christian music industry. So sometimes I feel
like, "Why do I want to kill myself to try to be
the biggest fish in that six-inch fishbowl?"
Like even here in California, we're supposedly
where there's opportunities--in my city there's
probably ten record stores and then in the whole
county, within a half hour, there's like two
Christian record stores, and one of them carries
my album and one of them doesn't. My first three
albums aren't even available any more, they're
already out of print. There's only a limited
amount of space, even in the stores that do
carry it, and there's so many new bands coming
out that, "where are they gonna put all that
product?" To me, it's almost understandable why
it's so limited. I think radio is very biased
against Christian [music], I mean if
there's anything blatantly Christian about the
lyrics, it scares program directors and music
directors, and they don't want to offend their
audience. It's kind of frustrating to see what
seemingly is pretty much these pre-defined
boundaries. I am not too hung up with hoping to
be very successful.
It's expensive to fly
out the band. It'd be different if we were on
tour and just passing through. We could play so
many other places, which really we should
do--it's a shame not to. We kind of made our own
little mini national tour back about two albums
ago. It was like the only time we actually did.
We flew into Minneapolis and then drove all the
way down to Florida and back up, back to Texas
and then up to Oklahoma, and came home from
Oklahoma. We were gone for about a month and we
played every place in between. It was great, but
we all burned up our whole vacation for that
year. It was a little bit tough because we did
it on a lower than low budget. But it wasn't
discouraging because there was a lot of people
everywhere we played. It was just so weird--you
go to a town you've never been to before and
there's people who know every lyric of every
song. [Laughter] It definitely made it
seem more real, to where when I came home and
was writing my next song, you can almost
visualize all across the country people are
literally gonna hang on every little word that
was coming out of my hands. It made it more real
and exciting--gave me more
responsibility.
Is a mainstream record
deal something you would consider or
seek?
Well, I have
mixed emotions about that. I used to think that
I wouldn't want to do that and I'm not sure how
I feel about it now. I think I probably
would if the opportunity presented
itself. Basically, I wouldn't say no to it. I
used to think, "Oh, I wouldn't want to do that
because that's selling out." It's kinda weird to
say that. I mean, I go to work everyday and
deliver letters to people. I deliver
Playboy magazines and everything else,
and who am I working for there? Am I working for
myself, for the post office, for God, or for the
devil? What am I doing? I'm just doing a job and
I'm not expected to be necessarily a
walking/talking preaching mailman evangelist.
I'm just expected to do my job. And that somehow
is okay.
But if I've been in a
Christian band before then it would somehow be
so terrible to do a mainstream album. I would be
more than happy to do a blatantly Christian
album on a mainstream label if the world would
accept it but they don't--they
wouldn't--because of their own bias. I
definitely wouldn't do anything that was against
my morals, or Christian values, lyrically. But
if I could just write about maybe things that
were wholesome Christian value type things and
messages--whether it be love, friendship,
honesty, family, fun, or what not--and
especially if I could have a label that was
gonna be supportive of me, and appreciated my
songwriting, my craft, and they had the budget
to make my album sound incredible and were gonna
market it, I would consider that. But I wouldn't
even necessarily want it or hope it but I would
pursue it. In fact, today I did send express
mail three copies of my new album to a producer
who produces this secular band The Grays
and Jellyfish. They're like the style of
what Mad at the World has done, and I wrote the
guy a letter and said, "I've just completed my
contract with a small, Christian label. I really
appreciate your work, would you be interested in
possibly working with me on producing the next
album?"
 So,
I told my wife, "I'm gonna do this one thing and
see what happens and we'll play this by ear." So
if this fellow calls me up and says, "Oh, yeah,
I would love to work with you and I have some
contacts with Capital Records, I have a meeting
set up with this guy, I want to do your record,"
I would definitely consider it but I don't even
expect that necessarily to happen. But if it
does, you heard it first here.
[Laughter]
As far as Christian
labels, it's weird, 'cause like I've mentioned
I'm thirty-five years old, and I almost feel
like I don't know who my audience is
necessarily. I don't know if kids want to hear
the kind of music I write and if they don't
that's fine too. I can write to whatever the
audience does want to hear. But I don't even
know if there's an audience for me. It's
weird.
Still, it's great. I
wouldn't trade it for anything. If I never make
another album, to be able to have seven albums
recorded and distributed world-wide, as little
in numbers that they sold, but they still are
out there and as long as it's helped some
people, and I know it's helped some
people, and people have enjoyed it and been
encouraged by it, then it definitely gives me a
lot of satisfaction. Just for that
alone.
--J. Warner
Soditus
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1995 Polarized Publications and NetCentral,
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